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- Majjhima Nikaya 72
- Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta
- To Vacchagotta on Fire
- For free distribution only, as a gift of Dhamma
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi,
at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's park. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged
courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he
sat down to one side. As he was sitting there he asked the Blessed One: "How is it,
Master Gotama, does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The cosmos is eternal: only this is
true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The cosmos is not eternal: only this is
true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The cosmos is finite: only this is true,
anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The cosmos is infinite: only this is
true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The soul & the body are the same:
only this is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'The soul is one thing and the body
another: only this is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'After death a Tathagata exists: only this
is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'After death a Tathagata does not exist:
only this is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'After death a Tathagata both exists &
does not exist: only this is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"Then does Master Gotama hold the view: 'After death a Tathagata neither exists
nor does not exist: only this is true, anything otherwise is worthless'?"
"...no..."
"How is it, Master Gotama, when Master Gotama is asked if he holds the view 'the
cosmos is eternal...'...'after death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist: only
this is true, anything otherwise is worthless,' he says '...no...' in each case. Seeing
what drawback, then, is Master Gotama thus entirely dissociated from each of these ten
positions?"
"Vaccha, the position that 'the cosmos is eternal' is a
thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a
fetter of views. It is accompanied by suffering, distress, despair, & fever, and it
does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation; to calm, direct knowledge, full
awakening, Unbinding.
"The position that 'the cosmos is not eternal'...
"...'the cosmos is finite'...
"...'the cosmos is infinite'...
"...'the soul & the body are the same'...
"...'the soul is one thing and the body another'...
"...'after death a Tathagata exists'...
"...'after death a Tathagata does not exist'...
"...'after death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'...
"...'after death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist'...does not lead to
disenchantment, dispassion, cessation; to calm, direct knowledge, full awakening,
Unbinding."
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"
"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a
Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is
feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are mental
fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' Because of
this, I say, a Tathagata -- with the ending, fading out, cessation, renunciation, &
relinquishment of all construings, all excogitations, all I-making & mine-making &
tendencies to conceits -- is, through lack of sustenance/clinging, released."
"But, Master Gotama, the monk whose mind is thus released: Where does he
reappear?"
"'Reappear,' Vaccha, doesn't apply."
"In that case, Master Gotama, he does not reappear."
"'Does not reappear,' Vaccha, doesn't apply."
"...both does & does not reappear."
"...doesn't apply."
"...neither does nor does not reappear."
"...doesn't apply."
"How is it, Master Gotama, when Master Gotama is asked if the monk
reappears...does not reappear...both does & does not reappear...neither does nor does
not reappear, he says, '...doesn't apply' in each case. At this point, Master Gotama, I am
befuddled; at this point, confused. The modicum of clarity coming to me from your earlier
conversation is now obscured."
"Of course you're befuddled, Vaccha. Of course you're confused. Deep, Vaccha, is
this phenomenon, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of
conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. For those with other views, other
practices, other satisfactions, other aims, other teachers, it is difficult to know. That
being the case, I will now put some questions to you. Answer as you see fit. How do you construe this, Vaccha: If a fire were burning in front of you,
would you know that, 'This fire is burning in front of me'?"
"...yes..."
"And suppose someone were to ask you, Vaccha, 'This fire burning in front of you,
dependent on what is it burning?' Thus asked, how would you reply?"
"...I would reply, 'This fire burning in front of me is burning dependent on grass
& timber as its sustenance.'"
"If the fire burning in front of you were to go out, would you know that, 'This
fire burning in front of me has gone out'?"
"...yes..."
"And suppose someone were to ask you, 'This fire that has gone out in front of
you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?' Thus asked,
how would you reply?"
"That doesn't apply, Master Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of
grass and timber, being unnourished -- from having consumed that sustenance and not being
offered any other -- is classified simply as 'out' (unbound)."
"Even so, Vaccha, any physical form by which one describing the Tathagata would
describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, like an uprooted palm
tree, deprived of the conditions of existence, not destined for future arising. Freed from
the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like
the sea. 'Reappears' doesn't apply. 'Does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Both does &
does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Neither reappears nor does not reappear' doesn't apply.
"Any feeling...Any perception...Any mental fabrication...
"Any consciousness by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That
the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, like an uprooted palm tree, deprived of
the conditions of existence, not destined for future arising. Freed from the
classification of consciousness, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom,
like the sea. 'Reappears' doesn't apply. 'Does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Both does
& does not reappear' doesn't apply. 'Neither reappears nor does not reappear' doesn't
apply."
When this was said, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Blessed One: "Master
Gotama, it is as if there were a great sala tree not far from a village or town: From
inconstancy, its branches and leaves would wear away, its bark would wear away, its
sapwood would wear away, so that on a later occasion -- divested of branches, leaves,
bark, & sapwood -- it would stand as pure heartwood. In the same way, Master Gotama's
words are divested of branches, leaves, bark, & sapwood and stand as pure heartwood.
"Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were
to place upright what had been overturned, were to reveal what was hidden, were to show
the way to one who was lost, or were to hold up a lamp in the dark so that those with eyes
could see forms, in the same way Master Gotama has -- through many lines of reasoning --
made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha
of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge,
from this day forward, for life."
See also: AN IV.42.